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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
1177
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Posted - 2014.01.04 09:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
The best solution for snipers is to remove the sniper rifle from the game.
Currently 99% of snipers are red line campers who do nothing to support the success of their team of the battle field. The end result of all this sniping is battles that feel empty with teams that are too small (snipers not actually functioning as part of them afterall) to hold or capture points on the battlefield.
Removing snipers would force all those red line players to get much closer to the action which would not only include them in Dust's risk reward mechanic but also force them to support their team inorder to be successful. In this context I am generalizing the word successful to mean both individually and as a team.
CCP would be the "brave developers" who actually got rid fo the useless non-team based sniping mechanic if they did this. The snipers who are team players would easily adapt and join in on the matches with the rest of us. The other snipers would get all their SP refunded and could donate their tears to my breakfast cup.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
1179
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Posted - 2014.01.04 10:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
The point I am making with my earlier comment is entirely retorical and meant to point out some major issues with the way sniping is implemented in the game.
Yes, there are other useless players. Sure, any class can be totally ineffective at helping a team. Of course, there are some snipers that actually do help a team win.
The issue that I am trying to point out, and this is what only one of you seemed to grasp, is that as it stands sniping is the only class of infantry (lets not get started on tanks) who's entire role on the battle field can be preformed adequately while still doing nothing to support the team. Now this is partially CCP's fault in that they have defined the role of the sniper far too narrowly by rewarding them only for killing which is by far the least useful thing that a sniper can do. CCP needs to rebuild the reward mechanic to allow snipers to get points for identifying targets for their team, suppressing targets, and other similar activities.
Additionally the risk reward mechanic needs to be altered. We see more officers sniper rifles on the field than any other officer weapon. This is because there are rewards for sniping that far outway the risks. In fact, for a redline sniper there are almost no risks involved, relative to the risks other infantry take on. If there are no rewards we are going to end up in games with 6 snipers which, while one poster here has identified as beneficial, is typically hugely detrimental to their team. Snipers need to be at more risk to decrease their numbers thus increasing the number of people actually playing in a battle. These changes should affect all people sitting in the redline not just snipers (thus eliminating your redline AR guy issue). A timer that results in clone death if in the redline for too long with be a simple solution to this problem.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
1180
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Posted - 2014.01.04 18:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:
First of all, I don't snipe from the redline, save for TWO extreme situations:
-If my team is being redlined (usually by squads from 0uterHeaven, and the like)
-To countersnipe an enemy sniping INTO my redline.
Sniping from the redline other than in those cases is boring, and doesn't help the team.
Then we agree. Sniping from the redline is totally useless but this is where 99% of snipers spend their time. As you have clearly pointed out this is totally antithetical to the point of sniping and fails to support their team in any way.
TheEnd762 wrote: I'm in a scout suit. A militia SMG can tear me apart in less than a second.
If you're sniping in a scout suit then you are doing it wrong. The scout suit is by far the worst suit for sniping in for several reasons. 1) It has the poorest ability to stack either damage mods or HP. 2) It has very limited ability to repair itself or provide itself with more ammo 3) Its only advantage, its low signature, is easily negated.
By far the best suit for sniping is a logistics suit, specifically the Gallente Logi which has an abundance of slots and a built in complex armor rep at level 5 allowing it to be totally self sufficient.
TheEnd762 wrote:No, I find myself a perch. I make sure I can cover AT LEAST two objectives, or their immediate areas/avenues of approach. When my team is trying to push their way to an enemy null cannon, I'M the one softening up the heavies, taking out the repair/needle logis, and picking off the guys spraying down from roofs, along with the hives and uplinks they placed up there. I'm watching out for enemy snipers. I'm killing guys calling in vehicles or waiting for them to drop. If someone I killed is about to be revived, I'm putting them right back down. That speedy scout that no one sees, running around hacking objectives and turret installations, I see him, and I take him out. And I just got myself a headset, so I can tell my team mates about enemy positions and movement. Don't EVER say I don't support my team.
Every sniper says something like this but I hate to tell you that you don't do it that well. Not only has a sniper actually never stopped me from taking a point. A sniper has never even dissuaded me from trying to take a point. A forge gunner is a far more potent and effective area denial weapon than any sniper in this game ever. Bar none. This means that one of the major roles of the sniper is totally out classed by another weapon. Why should we use a sniper rifle to defend a point when a forge will provide the same area denial and be able to kick around vehicles to boot?
TheEnd762 wrote:Yes, I am a sniper, but my claim to fame isn't my K/D ratio. It's killing someone strafing one of my teammates mid-jump. It's killing a stacked kinetic-catalyzer scout at full sprint. it's killing the driver of a moving LAV. It's taking out the door gunner of a dropship. It's killing someone dropping out of their MCC in mid-air. And doing all these things from 250+m.
You seem to think I'm attacking you personally TheEnd762 but if you would read my second post you would see that I am using rhetorical tools to point out major flaws in the current game design around snipers. Sure you may do all sorts of things with your sniper rifle but the sad fact is that every other class can do it better and have the added bonus of providing more immediate support to their team. I would trade a sniper of my team for any other player defined role since all of them are more apt to help the team than a sniper. A person with a rail rifle can do all of the things you mention in my final quote of you but since they are not at 250+m they are actually able to hack points and move to support their team where they are needed.
I have no problem with you being a coward and not wanting to "go into the meat grinder with the other lemmings." That is totally fine. What I have an issue with is that CCP has essentially created a useless group of players who are totally outclassed by everything else on the battle field. Currently a sniper amounts to little more than an annoyance on the battlefield which needs to change.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
1180
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Posted - 2014.01.04 19:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Quote:and have the added bonus of providing more immediate support to their team. I would trade a sniper of my team for any other player defined role since all of them are more apt to help the team than a sniper. Your only definition of valid "help" seems to be synonymous with "able to be killed at close to medium range". So I don't hack objectives. Neither do tankers, or dropship pilots, or several other types of players. That doesn't mean they're not contributing. Quote:A person with a rail rifle can do all of the things you mention in my final quote of you No, a person with a rail rifle cannot take out the driver of a moving LAV, unless it's coming right toward them and they get lucky. That's a coincidence. There is no skill involved. Nor can they take out someone dropping out of an MCC. Maybe they can kill the full sprint catalyzer stacked scout or the strafer in mid-jump at close range, but they're just as likely to die themselves. Quote:I have no problem with you being a coward and not wanting to "go into the meat grinder with the other lemmings." That is totally fine. Right. I'm a "coward" for not throwing suits and clones away like a moron, and instead choosing a more sophisticated tactic with a little finesse. Okay. I'm surprised you don't literally choke on your delusions of grandeur. The only thing that's useless is your incredible ignorance.
I love your pathetic attempt to counter my arguments but all you have really done is helped me understand that you don't actually know how to read. I never said that killing is the best way to provide team support. Tanks actually support their team mostly through deterrence, which is much more important than killing when we are talking about battlefield control. A DS is primarily useful for transport but can in the right hands be a deterrent as well. Once again both of these roles are things snipers try to lay claim to but are actually carried out better by others.
Yes, a person with a rail rifle, combat rifle, or AR can consistently kill LAV drivers out of their seat. Yes, it is a skill. Sorry that you're not good enough to be able to do it. Yes I can do it easier and more consistently than a sniper. Heck, half the time I don't bother and just kill the whole LAV with AV nades.
Scouts melt to regardless of how fast they are moving. Saying that a kin cated out scout is a thread is stupid. No a dampened scout with 700+hp. Now that is a threat, but scanning takes care of them nicely.
Remember that this is a game so you hiding way off in the distance having a minimal effect on the success of your team really isn't doing you any favors. Loosing a suit or two isn't a big deal. The added risk of being close to the action is what allows you to get the greater rewards for your team. Way back in the redline you have almost no risks and thus the reward for your team is minimal.
Also note that I have said it before and I'll say it again most of my opposition to sniping is that CCP has not set it up so that it encourages team support/play. In this team based game the sniper is the lone wolf who does very little to support his team's larger goal of controlling points. CCP needs to either change the way snipers are rewarded to encourage more team play or simply eliminate them from the game since in their current state they are not worth the servers' processing power.
Fun > Realism
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